William Spengler -- a 62 year old ex-con who had murdered his grandmother with a hammer, and served 17 years in prison for that 1980 murder -- decides to kill his sister, burn down his neighborhood, and take out the first responders by ambush. He leaves a note saying he's doing what he likes best: "killing people". He was armed with a pump shotgun, Bushmaster rifle, and .38 revolver. As a convicted felon -- it was a felony (with a mandatory prison sentence) for him to possess any of these weapons -- and yet he had them, anyway.
Can we learn anything from this?
Well . . . I guess the first thing is: it doesn't matter what the law prohibits -- because psycho's like Spengler are gonna get whatever they want -- and do whatever they want -- unless they are intercepted before they blow. Gun prohibitions just disarm those most responsible -- and leave the rest of us without a means of defense. However . . . I will go a step further . . . and perhaps incur the wrath of the NRA, and the ACLU on some proposals of my own -- which are at least worth discussing:
1. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to extend the instant criminal check to private sales of firearms. It won't catch everyone -- but it might help. It would be a simple matter to require FFL's to run such a check for a private sale for a specified fee.
2. I think that once a violent felon is released from prison -- authorities should have the right to run a weapons search on them at least twice a year. I know that runs afoul of what many would consider a civil liberties issue -- but I think it is a reasonable thing to legislate.
3. We need laws that allow a confidential but mandatory mental health evaluation of anyone who makes a threat of harming others or themselves, or where there is reasonable cause to believe such person might be planning such an endeavor. The initial evaluation need not be in a hospital or confinement setting -- but someone who is skilled in this type of evaluation should make an initial determination whether further evaluation or inquiry is required. Of course, protections have to be written into such a law so it cannot be used as harrassment by some disgruntled neighbor -- but -- such a law could intercept a serious problem.
4. There needs to be an entire change in the mental health system that sets up free group counseling at local centers that are easy to get to, access to prompt skilled emergency assistance, and provides for free medication for those who do not have the funds to pay for it themselves. While many will argue the cost will be too great -- my experience is that such a system would actually save money by keeping these people out of the criminal justice system.
5. We need a national hot-line where people can report situations where they have an honest belief that another person may be homicidal or suicidal. And -- we then need a confidential, non-intrusive way to check these reports out. Again, this is more difficult than it sounds because responders will need training, and there has to be a system to prevent abuses and harrassment.
6. I think that (in Florida) -- we need to allow schools -- especially private schools -- to hire armed security guards. As of now -- only a law enforcement officer may be armed on school grounds. This is absurd! Likewise, we should allow approved volunteers to be armed at private schools -- especially as applied to "church schools" and daycare.
7. I likewise think that teachers and administrators who volunteer, have special training, and pass a psychological evaluation -- should be allowed to carry concealed on school grounds. Obama's kids are at a school with over 11 armed security guards. That's really what it takes to truly protect a school -- not just one armed police officer. In Israel -- it is common for teachers to be armed. No big deal! So -- let's get over our aversion to common-sense, and allow it.
8. I think we need to allow students who are 18 years of age to be allowed to carry Taser type weapons on the campus of any school above the high school level. These are "one shot" purely non-lethal defensive weapons. They are not likely to be used in an offensive manner -- have a built-in flashlight -- and would allow students to have some minimal protection from criminal attack -- especially females. Likewise, I would remove the ability of a school to prohibit weapons in parked vehicles on campus (except as to their students in high school and below) as long as such weapons were securely encased, not open to view, and were in a locked compartment, or fully locked vehicle, if the vehicle was unattended.
Anyway -- those are just some ideas to toss around. All of them likely need refinement. Some might not work, some might be better than others. But . . . the one thing I know is a total crock are more "assault weapons bans", or bans of large capacity magazines. Not only are all these weapons and magazines already out there and available no matter what - but no nut case is gonna be dissuaded because he has to carry an extra clip, or can't have a rifle with a forward grip. That's just pure liberal political crap!
Wednesday, December 26, 2012
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One at a time on your ideas:
ReplyDelete1 Maybe if private people could call in to the NICS system, but as things stand now, such a law would require all sales to go through a dealer, as the NICS system is accessible only to dealers.
2 You mean a physical search of their property? Fourth Amendment and all that be damned?
3 Every state of which I am aware has such a law. In Florida, it is called the "Baker Act." FS 394.463
4 Maybe, but the problem is that many mentally ill refuse to take the medications because they don't like "feeling funny." Still, this may actually be a good idea.
5 This will be used as a tool in divorce and child custody cases, just like domestic violence injunctions are now.
6 I agree
7 Why limit it to just teachers? If I can be trusted to carry everywhere else, why is a school any different?
8 I also agree, but think that Tasers should be allowed as a concealed weapon for anyone over 18, anywhere.
An excellent reply - so here are my responses:
ReplyDelete1. yes -- this is why it would be mandatory for a dealer to do the call in -- for a fee.
2. Since these would be convicted felons of a violent crime -- I do not think it would be a Constitutional issue.
3. The Baker Act requires a clear and immediate danger vs. an inquiry into something less. There are constitutional issues in my proposal that need work and thought.
4. The medications suck -- but are necessary. But, many need someone to make sure they're taking them, and reassurance and support to make sure they continue to take them -- and on schedule. Big problem that needs to be addressed.
5. Yup -- people with personal agendas will definitely try to abuse it, and that's why the protections and confidentiality really need to be well thought out if this is ever done.
6. OK
7. I have no issues with a CWP holder in a vehicle -- however -- as a practical matter it will not be practical to allow carry inside any school building.
8. A Taser is already allowed for anyone -- most anywhere -- concealed or open -- but not on school grounds.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on number 7. I believe that it is less safe for everyone for a CWP holder to be forced to disarm in their car in a school parking lot as this would require unneeded manipulation of the firearm in a much less that ideal place. Then, one is forced to leave the firearm unattended in the car in close proximity to children, many of which are probably not properly trained as to what to do if they find a firearm. There is also the choice of whether to leave the firearm loaded or unload it. If I am leaving it unattended, even in a locked car, I would be inclined to unload it as an added precaution; however, I don't have a clearing barrel in my car, and in a school parking lot there is a distinct lack of "safe direction" in which to point said firearm while unloading. There is also the distinct possibility that Suzy Sockermom might notice me unloading my gun and call the police.
DeleteBy in large, CWP holders have proven in the state of Florida to be careful, law abiding citizens. I can carry my concealed firearm into a bank, a park, the mall, hell, even Walmart (which I will admit, just walking into a Walmart agitates me to no end, yet I never end up shooting anyone... go figure). Why is a school any different?
s
It turns out that the shooter in this case got his weapons via his neighbor, who was a straw purchaser. So, your requirement that all transfers got through a dealer would have accomplished nothing. I remain opposed to that idea.
DeleteAlso, in this case, the shooter lived with his family. So, your bi-annual weapons search would not only violate the fourth amendment rights of the convicted felon, but his family as well. I don't find that reasonable at all.
Those pesky civil rights, always getting in the way of tyranny.
While I don't disagree with you about a CWP holder in theory -- I think that schools would have a difficult time with this, especially if their security level is increased. I could be entirely wrong, but I don't think the mood of the country will allow it.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to #6...I did not know that private schools in Florida were not allowed to hire armed security guards other than LEOs. It would seem that the school that several of my children attend here in South Florida do not know of this either, since the friendly openly armed guard waves at me every morning as I drive in and drop off my kids.
ReplyDeleteAre there exceptions to the rule? These guys seem to be pretty much standard security guards working for a private, outside company.
I myself follow the 11th commandment while on school property, thou shalt not get caught. The only reason someone might find out that i'm carrying would be in the unlikely scenario wherein such protection would be necessary to save a life...
Unfortunately, Florida Statute 790.115(3) only exempts law enforcement officers, and not armed security guards. Makes no sense at all -- and likely the Legislature never even considered that this would hamstring church and private schools. Plus -- I see no reason a private school (mostly church schools that include day care during services) can't permit volunteers to be armed. The State could easily have additional training regulations for these persons if they saw fit -- but a CWP is probably all you need if the school specifically approved of the person. Traditional in many other states to protect the congregation. Florida totally screwed up on this.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your answer above.
ReplyDeleteI guess the big question then is, what are the potential consequences of armed security guards on the school grounds? It's weird, since I see them every day and no one seems to think there's anything wrong with it. (another example of laws that are nonsensical being ignored) Could the police come and arrest these security guards for carrying on school grounds? Is it a state offense or a federal one? How can we get the statute(s) changed to fix this problem?
only state law prohibits it.
ReplyDeleteI think they should open the NICS system to everybody without a fee. A simple phone call, a website, or even an app on your phone will get you all the info you need so you can make a informed private sale to another citizen. Instead of keeping it difficult/restrictive by having to go through a dealer, or paying the government more money, I think it would be much wiser giving the people the tools they need. If their true goal is to keeps these weapons out of bad guys hands.......then this shouldn't be a problem.
ReplyDelete